“I think that pleasure should feel palpable on screen.”

I first want to say congratulations on this feature. I think I've been yearning for a Black woman behind the camera. My cousin and I were recently watching Unprisoned on Hulu, and when I saw your name pop up at the end, I was like, “okay, I love this.

When we last spoke, it was on the heels of your first feature film, Jezebel. How does the experience of working on a smaller, more independent film like Jezebel compare to this larger studio film experience with The Perfect Find? 

Well, I'm always an indie filmmaker at heart. I’ll always find a way to get something done that I feel passionate about and pull whatever resources I can together. That's how we got Jezebel made. And I think that being that type of filmmaker, being that type of person, is the best groundwork for making a big studio feature. Which is hilarious because the first thing everyone wants to say is that, “you're not experienced enough,” and “you haven't done something on this scale before.” But really the fact that you can get a film made on a micro budget, and actually live to tell the tale, makes you well suited to take on a studio production. 

My film Jezebel was a $75,000 movie and The Perfect Find is a $25 million ish movie. And we literally went through the same exact thing, every single day, having to come up with creative solutions for things that go wrong. And things go wrong every day. You're still going to have ideas that you don't have money for. So you have to find a source or another connection, or come up with a different idea so you can still feel good about your movies. 

The scale is very different. You've got a bigger community of people to wrangle, collaborate with, and develop relationships with but it's the same job and you're even more prepared for it because you've gone through that learning on the job process. Not only did I do that in Jezebel, but I did it over the many years on web series with micro budget scales. I've done a short film for $500. I can do anything, because I've done that. I'm ready to take on a $100 million movie. It all starts with being able to make something out of nothing. 

It makes a lot of sense. Budget is not the only thing that drives the possibility of a project, like everything else is so much more important.

It really can be. It's just another way to kind of gatekeep. You haven't done something with this number attached to it, when really it works the opposite way. The more you can do for less, the more you can do for more. You really get that skill set.

On your Instagram recently, you were highlighting crew members. People on set who are either behind the camera or behind the scenes in some way, contributing to the life of this project. Why is it important for you to amplify the contributions of the crew?

Well, a few things really inspired that one. We're in a strike right now. I'm in the Writers Guild, the Directors Guild, and the Screen Actors Guild. So as a member of all three of those guilds, I really see what a challenging moment we're in right now, that's very connected to the overall labor movement for living wages, fair treatment, for safety, for all of that. A lot of crew members are really, really hurting in this process, because they don't cross picket lines and that means that they can't feed their kids. It's just a very difficult time. I really wanted to highlight the friends that I made on set who supported me as a Black woman directing this film. When other people thought that I was like, the custodian or something. Which is not a shameful thing to be either, but just the fact that I made and fostered some really meaningful relationships. I saw how hard they were working. I love my crew so much. They held me in such a great way. And I just want to shine some light on them. Especially in this time, where morale is not as high as maybe it was before.

The Perfect Find is based on a book by Tia Williams and the energy of the film has that nostalgic feeling that you would get from a movie like Love Jones. What are some of your all time favorite romantic comedies and romantic films that you tapped into for this?

One of my favorite rom-coms is Two Can Play That Game. I watch every year. My sister is the one tying this together. She called me up one day like, “you gotta see this movie!” So I knew right away why she wanted me to watch it. It was just so fun and I love a movie that works with the structure of rules like 10 Things I Hate About You. It’s very fun to me, seeing both points of view and Gabrielle Union is in that as well. I would love to do part two and have it be about the character that Gabrielle Union played. 

I also love Boomerang. It just has all of the glamor; it has Eartha Kitt who I’ve loved my whole life and Robin Givens who I also love. To me, that's one of the most iconic performances. That's where we all met and fell in love with Halle Berry. 

I would also give a little nod to When Harry Met Sally. There's a scene in The Perfect Find with a Christmas tree that’s a direct nod to When Harry Met Sally. There's a lot of classic rom-com references in the film. 

Earlier, you were talking about why we crave that nostalgic feeling. And it made me think of a point in the movie where Keith Powers’ character, Eric, says he likes watching old films because he likes to think about a humanity that could have never imagined us. And I think that idea kind of sticks with you. Knowing that [Black] people that came before us were creating incredible things that we still reference today, despite what they were going through. Now, we're carrying on these legacies in ways that, like he says, they probably could have never imagined or they could have thought would have taken a lot longer to achieve.

I'm so glad you're highlighting it because it's the moment where Jenna looks at Eric differently. It's the moment that she falls for him. And that moment is when, yes, while they have this generational gap, they're brought together by their love of these really special films that belong to us as a culture. And so like meta meta meta, I want the audience to feel that about the movie, I want the audience to feel that about the two of them coming together. Whatever feelings you have about the two of them starting a romance or however messy you think it's gonna be in that moment, it's a little moment of, 'oh, I get it. Oh, I see what they're connecting on.' I just love that moment.

How much of your approach to intimate scenes has changed?  

I think that pleasure should feel palpable on screen. It's something that I communicated very early on. I'm not going to bring two actors together, who don't have chemistry. Gabrielle and Keith had it from day one. They already knew each other and that helped, but just because you know someone doesn't mean you have chemistry. They just had a natural chemistry, and that is such a gift, to me, as a director. This thing is gonna flow and I know how to massage that, and milk that and create a safe space for that to blossom. 

We had an intimacy coordinator, which I've never had before. It's another person on the team to make things feel safer and more comfortable. For me, it was just about harnessing that chemistry, letting it breathe. I wouldn't call cut with [Gabrielle] at the end of a scene. And at first, it really kind of threw her off. She got used to it, she definitely got used to me. I'm like, no, I'm just gonna kind of sit here and let the camera be there for a bit longer. Because something happens when you reach the end of that finish line, you have the end of the scene, something happens with actors, where they go even more. It's an even more honest moment. I told everyone in the cast, 'hey, don't worry about saying the line perfectly,' or, 'if that line is weird, for you don't say it at all, say something else. As long as you're locked in, and you're having that real connection with one another, I'll take care of the rest.' Sometimes we'd find our way back to the script. And it was giving us room to play, fall in love with each other, and feel some seduction.

It's cool to hear you talk about how you guys interacted on set. Do you feel like camaraderie between crew and cast members is crucial to a set?

It's very crucial to a set. You can make a great movie and still find out that people were being horribly exploited and abused. It doesn't stop people's talent from shining through, and you can be a horrible person while also being highly talented. But for me, I always want to foster not just a good experience, but a memorable experience, an outstanding experience. And it starts early on. It's not that there weren't challenges on our set. The biggest challenge is that you're wearing all this, face and head gear. And it creates walls between people that you have to work harder to overcome and you have to develop trust, and it takes a little bit of time. So the way that I earn that trust is by getting my crew home early, every project that I do. Day one, we go home early right on time and, I'm so aware, and cognizant of not burning out my crew. But even beyond not burning them out, I do like giving them gifts. People see that you care and they give that care back to you tenfold. And so that was really something that we developed an urge for. I didn't know any of them before we worked together, and then in terms of the cast, it was just awesome. Everyone already knew each other. For some of the cast members that knew about Black and sexy TV, they were really supporting me, they were like, ‘we're here for you and we're not going to fuck up when we come to you.’ Like, they really wanted me to shine. And so it was kind of just like that collective energy that really made it move forward in a beautiful way. 

Every experience that I'm a leader on, I want people to feel that way, like, 'oh, I worked on that film, that was a great experience. That was one of my best experiences.' And then I want us to all have better experiences overall. Because there's just a lot of the opposite. We're going to do our best to make sure everyone feels safe, loved and has a good time and we have something to be proud of at the end.

I'm curious about the length of the filmmaking process for a project like this. And how did you take care of yourself during that whole process? 

Well, I will say that it was during this film that I experienced my first panic attack at night, waking up out of sleep, and thinking that you're dying and not realizing that it's an attack. I was taking on so much. I came in with so much excitement, but also so much pressure. So I got into breathing, and I got into trying to manage my stress and how much pressure I was putting on myself. And I was able to manage it. But it did persist for a while. And then when we came back to reshoot a scene some months later, it happened again. It was my stress over feeling like “this is my one shot”, and feeling like I've got to achieve all of these things in one moment of time. So just managing those things, through breathing, through meditation, through reminding myself that it's not that serious. Taking myself a little less seriously. 

And then I also realized when I went to go make the movie that I had gained quite a bit of weight during the pandemic. There was a whole year where I didn't work, where we didn't make the film. And by the time that year went by, I was heavier, to the point that I had become very sedentary. And so I was trying to slowly build up my endurance, because you need endurance to do this job. You need your body, your mind, everything healthy to really succeed at this job. So I just accepted it. 

When you wrapped, what kind of feelings did you have?

It was hard. We had a 27-day schedule that went out 24 days. So it's just a lot, you know, and that pressure cooker became intense. When it was over, I flew down to Miami to see my family. I was very ready to just like, be in a pool, just take some time to Miami, and swim in the pool with my kid. When we came back to LA, I felt very proud and happy of what we all accomplished. 

Who do you most hope to reach when you make your work? 

Black women. It’s always Black women. It's always us. And then anyone who loves us, after that. That's a second circle. Black, those who love us, that's everything I do. That's what I do this for.

What can we expect to see coming up for you? I know you have the production venture, House of NUMA. What do you have coming with that? 

Since we're in the middle of the strike right now, I don't know if the actors will also be striking. I don't know what's gonna happen with this and I'm going through a reset right now and looking at different projects that I have that I can't work on, even if I wanted to. So I'm just reassessing what I want, reassessing what makes me happy and where my ambitions are now. 

I don't know what's next. I have a list of projects that I've put to the side until we figure out these contracts. I'm not sure if I have an appetite for certain things like doing, you know, erotica, horror movies or like, erotic thrillers that I'm really interested in. It's just a time of reevaluation. 

You do feel a little bit like a hamster on a wheel when you're trying to put your kid through school and do all these things, but also still feel meaningful. And I think that's something that every artist is constantly weighing against until you surrender to one side or the other. So I'm kind of in the middle of that. And yeah, I guess we shall see!

Cool. I love that. Well, I feel like I can keep talking to you for a while. I love it.

Happy we're doing this again. I'm so fortunate to have another project that we can talk about. 

 It's cool to see that progression in your career; it's cool to watch it all go down. We at Womanly are honored that you wanted to have us be a part of telling the story. So thank you.